Dr. Yamicia Connor

In this episode of Did We Learn Anything?, Dr. Yamicia Connor, an OBGYN and founder of Race to Better Health and Diosa Ara, discusses her path to medicine and focus on improving care for women of color. She highlights the need to address empathy deficits in healthcare and explains how her organizations work to translate health equity ideas into action and combat medical racism in obstetrical care.

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Relevant links:
https://www.yamiciaconnor.com/
https://www.racetobetterhealth.com/
https://www.diosara.com/

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Transcript

00;00;00;29 - 00;00;31;12
Vice President Kamala Harris
Let's be clear. When you study, maternal mortality as it relates to black women, what you will find, is it does not matter her income or her education level. It literally has to do with the fact that she is a black woman. And when she walks into that hospital, that clinic or that doctor's office and talks about what is she is experiencing, she is not being taken seriously.

00;00;31;14 - 00;00;59;12
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Hi there. I'm Nicole Tucker Smith, and this is. Did we learn anything? A podcast committed to opening a dialog intended to make room for diverse perspectives and humanity. All right. Welcome, welcome. We are here with another episode of Did We Learn Anything? And I am so excited today because we get to learn from Doctor Jimmy O'Connor. And so dementia.

00;00;59;12 - 00;01;08;25
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Let's just get right to it. Can you just tell us tell the audience, the folks listening who you are and what's important to you?

00;01;08;28 - 00;01;42;02
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Thank you so much, Nicole, for having me on today. So as you stated, my name is Doctor Tracy Connor. I am an Oregon physician scientist. I am a mother of three and the founder and CEO of two organizations. So the first is a nonprofit called Race to Better Health. And the second. My newest venture is called Diosa Ara, which is a women's health company focused on improving obstetrical and gynecological outcomes for black women and other women of color.

00;01;42;05 - 00;02;01;03
Dr. Yamicia Connor
In terms of what's important to me, I think, you know, my introduction really encapsulates most of it. So I am dedicated to my family, and also to improving the lives of women, which I think is a really salient topic in this current moment in our nation's history.

00;02;01;05 - 00;02;31;25
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Definitely. And as you think about, you know, I can't imagine a mother of three, you're leading two organizations. I don't imagine you have much extra time on your hands. And so, thinking about how you spend your time, I imagine is is going to be particularly important as you make choices between leading organizations and being a mother. And so when I think about life choices, what drew you to a career in medicine and in particular, you have this focus on women's health.

00;02;31;25 - 00;02;35;01
Nicole Tucker-Smith
So, you know, what led you in that direction.

00;02;35;04 - 00;03;01;08
Dr. Yamicia Connor
So I've always knew that I wanted to be a physician since I was very young, and I remember being six years old and talking to my mom about wanting to be a doctor. Obviously, at that age, I really had no conception of what it meant to be a physician. I, you know, was just looking around. I, you know, I people in, in the world that seemed to have an important, impact.

00;03;01;08 - 00;03;36;28
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And of course, you know, as a, as a young child, it's really, you know, the people that you experience are your physicians or teachers. It wasn't until probably and telling, you know, started really in sincerity, applying for medicine that I started to, you know, truly understand what it would mean to be a physician. And then in residency is really when you learn how to be a doctor, the intellectual part of medicine is just very different from the actual practice of medicine.

00;03;37;00 - 00;03;52;13
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And that latter part, the actually learning how to take care of people and what how far the reality diverge from the theory was really what has brought me to my career today.

00;03;52;15 - 00;04;11;08
Nicole Tucker-Smith
You know, you said something interesting as you were thinking about your exploration of what you wanted to pursue, and you said you learned what it would mean to be a physician. What can you talk a little bit more about that? What does it to you? What does it mean to be a physician?

00;04;11;10 - 00;04;43;11
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Yeah. So I think, there are a couple of things inside the hospital you're able to see inside of people's personal lives in a way that, most other professions don't enable you to. And sometimes you see things that are not that flattering. And I think the combination of those two things, for some people, they come out of the other end of that with like a really deep, deep cynicism, which inevitably is going to impact the way that they care for patients.

00;04;43;13 - 00;05;09;28
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And so there's a certain amount of sacrifice. I, I think that is just inherent to the job. But you have to balance that with, like, your own emotional and physical well-being, right? Because you can't take care of others if you yourself are not well. And right now in the current profession, there's really not a good mechanism for doing that.

00;05;10;01 - 00;05;45;23
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And I think so much of the unhappiness happiness people have with the medical profession and the type of care that they are receiving is really due to this empathy deficit. I think, you know, simply like people just can't give you what they don't have. And if they if so many physicians are operating with such an empty tank, because of the way that the system is structured, they can't then therefore, like give that empathy to the patients that they care for.

00;05;45;25 - 00;05;46;20
Dr. Yamicia Connor


00;05;46;22 - 00;06;05;29
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Yeah I can. And in your response I loved it. I could, I could hear that part of what it means to be a physician is to balance the sense of humanity, right. The humanity. And that you see in the patients that you're caring for. And when you're close, you see the good, the bad, and in many times the very ugly.

00;06;06;01 - 00;06;06;16
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Yeah.

00;06;06;19 - 00;06;23;25
Nicole Tucker-Smith
And that's human. That's part of being human. And then you also have to balance your own humanity and being aware of when you may be over sacrificing or just when you're in a space of an emotional empathy deficit, that then you can't give the best you can for those you care for. So what do you have to do?

00;06;23;25 - 00;06;42;12
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Whether that's choosing the of the line of work that is less toxic, right? It might help you to be the best physician that you can be, but also I you mentioned briefly two organizations that you founded. And because I wonder, I was like, you know, if you're an ObGyn and you're a mother, you it seems like you have enough to do so.

00;06;42;12 - 00;07;01;01
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Why would you found two other organizations? Clearly there must be something that that's helping to feed. How can you tell us a little bit about these organizations and then and how they see their your why and, and how they might help to, to feed the overall health of our communities.

00;07;01;03 - 00;07;48;16
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Yeah. So the first is a nonprofit called race a Better Health. I founded this organization when I was doing my MPH, and the impetus for it really was my frustration with the lack of translation that I see in the health equity, and public health spaces. So there is a lot of intellectualizing of, of what, are the causes of, you know, poor health outcomes, but there's not a lot of translating that information into actual solutions that are scalable.

00;07;48;18 - 00;08;36;03
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And the reasons for that are complex. But at least one of the reasons that we have identified is because the the folks that are involved in translating ideas. So these are your engineers, your investors, your business folks. Those people aren't a part of the public health infrastructure. And so if you only have, I could essentially academics, who are thinking about a problem and, and writing papers about it, but have no themselves experience in taking an idea and actually making it into an innovation that can exist in the real world, that of course, it's going to make sense that a lot of these ideas are not being translated.

00;08;36;05 - 00;09;04;17
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And that is the idea behind, raised about our health. It focuses on this concept of engineering, health equity, which has a few parts. But the main focus really is on I'm trying to find ways to take health equity, ideas and make them into interventions that can impact the real world. So that involves bringing more people around the table.

00;09;04;20 - 00;09;55;25
Dr. Yamicia Connor
To contribute to these ideas. Another key element is inviting patients to be equal members of the organization, so that that voice is not just an afterthought, but something that is directly involved in making sure that these that these ideas, when translated, are translated to the right idea, the right concept that will impact people's lives, which often, if done in isolation, you know, by people who who honestly aren't the, the, the target consumer or customer for the, you know, the translated idea, what you will get is something at the other end that, you know, on paper fulfill the criteria, but in reality doesn't meet the needs of the community was designed to support.

00;09;56;00 - 00;10;20;01
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And so we we believe very strongly that patients need to be a part of the conversation at every step of the way. And then the last part is trying to create an environment or ecosystem where these ideas can be translated in a way that is efficient, is sustainable and scalable. The second company, my newest endeavor is called USA, I am.

00;10;20;01 - 00;10;53;05
Dr. Yamicia Connor
That means that is body to USA is goddess in Spanish and is body in Europe. And so the this company is really the genesis of my, of both my experiences as a mother and also my, my professional experiences as a women's health physician. The goal of the company is to try to improve outcomes for black women and other women of color.

00;10;53;05 - 00;11;34;07
Dr. Yamicia Connor
So Hispanic women, Native American women, other women that also suffer poor obstetrical outcomes. And the reason that this, this idea or this venture is really important to me is I after having my kids, it became very clear to me how vulnerable I would have been if I myself were not part of the medical establishment. And so, although I felt like I received, you know, great care during my pregnancies, I had to do a lot of shaping of that care.

00;11;34;09 - 00;12;09;13
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And that is just not a luxury that most people have. And when you, you know, take a step back and think of, you know, why is it that the American health care system, has such poor obstetrical outcomes, particularly for minority women? A few things kind of come to the forefront. The most compelling data that really underlies this is the data that shows that even affluent women of color have poor outcomes.

00;12;09;15 - 00;12;46;08
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And so what that tells me is that it's unlikely to be something external to the hospital system. For example, you know, these women are educated, these women are, well, resource. They have access to insurance. So all of the usual suspects that people try to attribute these bad outcomes to just doesn't apply to this population. And so instead, I think what the, the ultimate cause and that's one of the goals of, of what we hope to demonstrate with your data, is that what's driving these poor outcomes is medical racism.

00;12;46;11 - 00;13;16;26
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And if we think that racism or discrimination is the problem, then we need to design an intervention that can can actually address that problem. And so that's why Josiah focuses in on emergencies. And so we want to in real time when a woman is in extremis, we want to be able to intervene if we feel like standard of care isn't being met.

00;13;16;28 - 00;13;44;19
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And so that intervention can look like a couple different things. So best case scenario is just education and reassurances. But in a worst case scenario where we think that things are not going, our care is not what we would define a standard of care, then we will directly try to intervene by offering recommendations to the care team all the way up through potential legal interventions.

00;13;44;19 - 00;14;14;17
Dr. Yamicia Connor
If we think that things are very egregious. And so to answer like your final question, how does this feed me? I think that these organizations allow me to see problems in the world, and instead of just internalizing those problems and, and, you know, developing, like, I think, a sense of hopelessness, which I think a lot of providers or inevitability, which I think a lot of providers would, you know, which adds to the cynicism.

00;14;14;17 - 00;14;41;03
Dr. Yamicia Connor
I think a lot of providers feel I can take those experiences and help them inform what we're going to do next, or how we can how we as organizations can better address the the challenges that I that I'm seeing on a day to day basis. And, you know, the data is still to be collected because we don't know how successful the organizations will be.

00;14;41;03 - 00;15;09;26
Dr. Yamicia Connor
But what my hunch is, and what I hope to demonstrate is because I have such close proximity to the problems, the sort of innovations and ideas that we're able to generate are going to be, I think, more effective, because they were born from real experiences as opposed to, you know, startups that are based on, like, you know, a theoretical approach to a problem that the founders don't really have any direct knowledge of.

00;15;09;28 - 00;15;31;27
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Yeah. Oh my goodness, there was so much there. And I want to back up a little bit. And because you mentioned something called poor obstetrical outcomes, I hope I'm pronouncing that right. And, you know, that sounds very technical, but like what does that mean. Like and so what does that mean? What is the impact of what is when women of color have poor obstetrical outcomes in in everyday talk.

00;15;31;29 - 00;15;32;19
Nicole Tucker-Smith
What does that mean for.

00;15;32;19 - 00;16;02;15
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Yeah. So black women are nine times more likely to die in pregnancy than women in our peer countries. So let's take a woman, in like the UK and compare her with a woman. In the U.S, who is black, there is about a nine times nine fold increase in likelihood that that black woman is going to die from a pregnancy complications.

00;16;02;23 - 00;16;04;05
Dr. Yamicia Connor
So that's huge.

00;16;04;08 - 00;16;12;04
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Yeah. That's huge. Nine times I'm nine times more likely to die because I am in the United States giving birth as a black guy.

00;16;12;07 - 00;16;12;29
Dr. Yamicia Connor


00;16;13;02 - 00;16;28;22
Nicole Tucker-Smith
And this in this to me is I don't think people understand when we say things like poor obstetrical outcomes, I don't think they understand like, no, I am nine times more likely to die in the United States. That is should be unacceptable for anybody.

00;16;28;25 - 00;17;00;02
Dr. Yamicia Connor
It should be right, especially given that we have the most advanced and robust medical infrastructure. Compared to all other developed countries. But even to extend this further, any woman, even a white woman, is three times more likely to die than her year in, let's say, let's take the UK again. And so what this tells you is that the US has a problem caring for pregnant women, period.

00;17;00;06 - 00;17;22;14
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Yes, like all problems, if they're bad for white women, they're even worse for black women. That's just kind of a theory you can apply across across all different sorts of, of, of, outcomes. So would I say poor obstetrical outcomes. That's what I mean. But there is a gradient, right. Because there's a lot of bad things that can happen to you before you die.

00;17;22;14 - 00;17;24;01
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Right? Death is not the only.

00;17;24;01 - 00;17;26;06
Nicole Tucker-Smith
That, the only problem.

00;17;26;09 - 00;17;57;17
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And so, you know, one would think like things like having an ICU admission, having to have a hysterectomy, having to have a really prolonged hospitalization with multiple complications. All of those things are poor outcomes. And if the death rate is nine times, then you can imagine how much more morbidity black women in the US experience compared to those outside of the US.

00;17;57;19 - 00;18;32;18
Dr. Yamicia Connor
I think that's this is really important for people to keep in mind that mortality is one metric that we use because it is, for lack of a better word, convenient. But there are so many other really horrible impacts that our health system has on making just the birthing process really, really unpleasant and unhealthy for women. That has only gotten worse since the overturning of the decision, because now things that used to be pretty straightforward in terms of how one would manage it.

00;18;32;18 - 00;19;05;01
Dr. Yamicia Connor
For example, you know, someone breaking their water 15, 16 weeks, you know, we had processes for managing these situations that kept women safe. But now that's all been turned on its head and women that never were in great danger before are now starting to have these complications that are inevitably going to just drive up those poor outcomes, worse and worse and worse.

00;19;05;03 - 00;19;08;00
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Yeah. So we're literally moving in the wrong direction and.

00;19;08;04 - 00;19;09;13
Dr. Yamicia Connor
We're moving in the wrong direction.

00;19;09;13 - 00;19;31;00
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Absolutely. And would you say like there's it's a care issue. We already don't. We have evidence that there's an issue of the quality of care for pregnant, pregnant women in the United States. And you also mentioned that, well, you know, three times worse for black women. And a lot of people are hesitant to say that it's racism. They're like, but I'm not racist.

00;19;31;03 - 00;19;57;08
Nicole Tucker-Smith
And and an individual being racist is different from systemic racism. But when people say racism isn't the cause or isn't the issue, I, you know, I share my own personal story with giving birth where I almost died. Here I am, an educated black woman. I have resources and giving birth in one of the top hospitals in the Baltimore region in Baltimore is actually a great place to come to the hospital.

00;19;57;10 - 00;20;23;15
Nicole Tucker-Smith
And I had a nurse who, like, I had had a C-section and I was losing a lot of blood and my vitals were going down and I could feel I could literally feel life draining from me. And this nurse standing by my bedside, kept looking at my the, the instruments that were reporting my vitals. And she kept saying, that can't be right.

00;20;23;17 - 00;20;51;22
Nicole Tucker-Smith
That can't be right. And I tried to say I'm so cold, I'm so cold and I couldn't even move my mouth like I couldn't talk, I couldn't say anything because I was so weak. And I felt life leaving me. And everything faded and got dark. And as right as everything was starting to be pitch black, I heard the alarms go off because I was still attached to the medical devices, and those medical devices saved my life because they were the alarms to say, oh no, this person is crashing.

00;20;51;24 - 00;21;09;29
Nicole Tucker-Smith
And I just remember that was such a horrible experience that an individual could literally look at these instruments saying that I needed care and not giving me care because she didn't believe that I needed help.

00;21;10;01 - 00;21;10;25
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Yeah.

00;21;10;27 - 00;21;36;28
Nicole Tucker-Smith
And when we think about these disproportionate outcomes and we think about where does race play an issue? You talked a little bit. We mentioned race to better health about just health equity. Like what how do you define health equity. And why do we need to understand that in order to address these issues. Because if and honestly, if we can look at one person and say they don't need help, we can look at anybody and say they don't need help.

00;21;37;00 - 00;21;48;02
Nicole Tucker-Smith
So how do we confront health equity in a way that makes the system better for for everyone, including those who are most likely do get the poorer outcomes?

00;21;48;05 - 00;22;09;04
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Yeah. So I'm sorry about that experience. It's, it breaks my heart that that was what was happening or what happened to you. And it's almost unbelievable until you hear it so often that it's. I've heard I've heard some variation of that story, like, so many times.

00;22;09;04 - 00;22;12;23
Nicole Tucker-Smith
So many times is I'm not I'm not alone at all.

00;22;12;26 - 00;22;51;27
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Exactly. That it stops. You stop actually attributing it to like, individuals. Like there has to be something else because it is a make sense otherwise. But let me take a couple steps back to talk about like, maternal health outcomes and then the talk a little bit about health equity, because my thinking is really changing on this more from the perspective of where we are, you know, politically, because I think we have to talk about these issues differently if we're actually going to make any progress, as we stated, that women have poor obstetrical outcomes in the US period.

00;22;52;00 - 00;23;27;01
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And those reasons are varied. But I think, some of it is our social infrastructure, our huge income disparities, you know, lack of access to preventative care, people being uninsured or under-insured in general, reproductive age women. And so this is not even talking about in pregnancy. If you look at the data just for reproductive age women comparing those women in the US versus other poor countries, we get worse care just down one.

00;23;27;03 - 00;24;19;11
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And when you reflect on what's happening at a more like socio political level, some of that should make sense, right? Like, why are women suffering on this level? Okay, there's a huge swath of people who really don't care about the well-being of women, just like off the cuff. I want people to, however, separate that from what we are talking about when we think about things like health equity and medical racism and so when I say that, what I am pointing to, which not this is not how everyone defines it, but what I am pointing to is are the ways that systems, because of who someone is, discriminates against that individual to poorly impact their

00;24;19;11 - 00;24;45;29
Dr. Yamicia Connor
health outcome. Now, there are a lot of things outside of the hospital that will poorly impact your health outcome. So I'm not actually looking at any of those things. And I think it's really important to differentiate that, not that because those things outside the hospital are not important and don't have huge impacts on someone's health. But the intervention that you use to change it is very different.

00;24;46;01 - 00;25;08;12
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And so we don't want to confound these two things, because I think, again, when you think about the goals of race to better health and actually getting an an actionable solution out the other end, you have to be very clear what problem you're trying to solve. That is, why do you set out to has really focus in on the point of care?

00;25;08;14 - 00;25;53;01
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Because what we want to do is we're trying to solve the the problem that we have narrowly defined as medical racism. Meaning when you come into the hospital because of the color of your skin or the language you speak, you get different quality of care. That is a problem that we feel is actionable. And as as a third party can go in and try to intervene on now, that is not going to improve everyone's maternal outcomes, because that is a much bigger, much more expansive issue that involves a lot of social and health policies.

00;25;53;04 - 00;26;19;24
Dr. Yamicia Connor
But what I do think that this could intervene on is the exact situation that you were referring to. Nicole. Where there was a discrete moment where somebody had to use their experience in order to identify a problem, but because of bias, they that experience of being overrated by this cognitive bias that they probably themselves weren't even aware of.

00;26;19;27 - 00;26;42;17
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And a third party who's working on your behalf, I think, could have done a lot to help overcome that simply by just pointing out, hey, you need to look at the doctor exactly like stopping around the instruments. I need to see the doctor. That simple phrase or, you know, have you checked that she's bleeding? Look under the drapes.

00;26;42;22 - 00;27;06;06
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Is she bleeding? You know, is her fund is firm. I mean, there's there's just a lot of discrete things that you can do in that situation that can help break someone out of that cognitive bias. So that is what we are trying to work on. And so when you think about health equity, I think we have to be really we have to be really clear about what we are kind of talking about.

00;27;06;08 - 00;27;54;24
Dr. Yamicia Connor
What I have now define our goals to be is to try to affect medical racism. And I think that will have some contribution to improving health equity, meaning making health outcomes more equitable across populations. But the work of really achieving health equity is much bigger than that. And I think that's, you know, what I tell people, this is why everyone has to get involved in our politics, in our society, because everyone having access to good health is a social question that we as a society, as a people, have to ask ourselves, and we need to treat it as a social question, is not appropriate for physicians or even people in public health to think of

00;27;54;24 - 00;28;17;00
Dr. Yamicia Connor
it as this is a problem that they're going to solve. No, this is a problem that they need to help elevate and to explain to people why it's important that we all try to achieve this goal, solving the problem of medical racism. That is a problem that us as public health officials and physicians and organizations like race about our health and due to other.

00;28;17;03 - 00;28;25;08
Dr. Yamicia Connor
That is a place where I think we could have a much larger impact while still, of course, being advocates for health equity.

00;28;25;11 - 00;28;48;12
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Yeah. And I think one of the things I love about the work of Diosa Ara is and and this is something that I've said in my work in education and adolescent cast, when we think about education equity is that there's the big equity challenge. But then in order to really address this in a way that changes lives for people is that you have to get specific.

00;28;48;14 - 00;29;18;22
Nicole Tucker-Smith
You have to get specific on the problem to find an actionable solution that can then result in positive changes for people. And it's those positive changes that then feed back into our systems. And, you know, taking this moment of medical racism as it relates to improving the outcomes of pregnant women, I think has a powerful impact that ultimately can give us, teach us lessons, really that can feed the other issues in other circumstances.

00;29;18;22 - 00;29;46;15
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Or we can, you know, lessons learned and hopefully it'll help people influence their thinking. And so you mentioned that everyone needs to be involved. Now, if I'm let's say if I identify as a man, why do I care? And I'm like, I'm obviously a I have an opinion on this, but I'm asking you if I'm involved, as you know, if I identify as a man, why should I care about maternal outcomes or black maternal outcomes?

00;29;46;15 - 00;29;53;12
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Like, why should I care that, women of reproductive age are treated more poorly? What difference does that make to me?

00;29;53;14 - 00;30;15;06
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Yeah, so I have two clear answers to that. So, the that is very clear that I could be a bazillion trillionaire if I live an unhealthy society, I am more likely to die early. So just out of completely selfish reasons, if you want to maximize your health outcomes, you need to try to maximize the health outcomes of the poorest amongst us.

00;30;15;08 - 00;30;48;21
Dr. Yamicia Connor
It is a really complicated you know, the reasoning behind that is very complex, but you can just boil it down to a sick society makes everyone sicker for men in particular. Although if you look at our politics right now, it would not be clear to everyone. But men do need women to like, live fulfilled lives. I think that's a fair statement to say, you know, you we all have mothers, you know, many of us have sisters, wives, you know, etc. people in our lives that define themselves as, being female.

00;30;48;21 - 00;31;11;00
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And if you want those women to, to live robust and healthy lives, then you should you should care about this. So on I'm on one side it's it's almost it's such a counterproductive and almost feels so counterproductive that we have to explain this to people. Like, why do you want, like the other half of society, to be healthy?

00;31;11;02 - 00;31;36;07
Dr. Yamicia Connor
If you want society to continue to perpetuate? I think it's it is very clear to me, like women have to be healthy. We need to enable women to live healthy, fulfilling, safe lives. And if we're able to do that, it we're going to destabilize society to such an extent that it is. If it's not clear to you already, it's going to become clear to you very soon.

00;31;36;09 - 00;31;38;03
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Why that's important.

00;31;38;05 - 00;31;58;07
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Is sick society makes everyone sicker, makes everyone sicker. So if we think about ourselves as an individual living in a society, recognizing that we're actually moving in a direction of worse outcomes and better outcomes, how do we make this shift? Like what are some things that folks can do to find a breakthrough, to move in a more positive direction?

00;31;58;14 - 00;31;59;23
Nicole Tucker-Smith
What are your thoughts on that?

00;31;59;25 - 00;32;32;01
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Yeah, actually, I mean, this is one area that I have been trying to deepen my expertise in over the last, I would say like two, two and a half years is really trying to explain, and understand for myself, like, why does it seem like we're moving in such a, counterproductive direction? You know, I got into this work to try to help improve health outcomes for, you know, for disadvantage populations.

00;32;32;04 - 00;33;07;04
Dr. Yamicia Connor
But what became really clear to, I'm sure not to just me, but to like anyone who has eyes, and who is like looking at around what's happening to our country, is that even the things that we used to take for granted, like the fact that people more or less believed in a pluralistic society or, you know, people more or less that everyone should, you know, be able to vote, that those things that I thought were settled questions are anything but settled.

00;33;07;06 - 00;33;51;18
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And so the idea of actually trying to improve people's health outcomes when those basic parts of whether all of us are equal members of our society, if those questions haven't been answered, it's almost comical to try to work on some of those more existential, almost, you know, almost philosophical ideas. And so in some ways, it very much mainly recognize, you know, when people talk about liberals, just like living in a different planet, it does help me understand that, like the problems I'm trying to solve are like, not even really relevant right now because we still have much bigger, more central problems that we need to tackle.

00;33;51;20 - 00;34;20;17
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And so the first thing I think people need to do, and one thing that we're trying to do as an organization, at least in the realm of reproductive health, is we need to educate ourselves to our own history in this country because most people have no idea. And I'm not judging people because I had no idea until I spent all this time reading and, you know, going to like, really obscure parts of the internet.

00;34;20;20 - 00;35;03;15
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And, you know, listening to obscure historians trying to put these pieces together to explain what's happening now. But there are some really significant identity. When I say identity, I don't mean like black and white, but identity of us as Americans that are unresolved. I think a lot of what you're see this election has to is, is the ANC's of of trying to get resolution to the some of those questions, but very few, not enough people really understand what the issues are and how pervasive they have been in this country for as long as it's existed.

00;35;03;18 - 00;35;51;13
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And also that these aren't underground folks. These aren't people like, you know, in some back, you know, back some basements, like just chatting amongst each other. This is a very intellectualized movement. There are a lot of resources that are going into trying to reverse our society back to a different time period. And so I think everyone has a responsibility to invest time and energy into learning as much as they can about what's happening, because that's going to be critical to not only solving like the issues of health equity, but solving much more proximal issues like does everyone, should everyone be allowed to vote?

00;35;51;15 - 00;36;16;13
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And questions like, does the Declaration of Independence, where we say all men are created equal, who does that even refer to? Does that refer to us as Americans compared to other populations, or does that refer to us as individuals compared to under other individuals? Those are real questions that people are having and real debates that people are having.

00;36;16;15 - 00;36;46;13
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And if we all don't become a part of those debates, then the answers that those questions will be answered by other people and those other people honestly, they don't believe in democratic principles. They they do fundamentally think that things like bureaucracies or an autocrat, like those are better methods of organizing society than a democracy is. And so if I can believe one thing for everyone is we all have to get involved.

00;36;46;13 - 00;36;53;22
Dr. Yamicia Connor
We all have to take the time to learn, because this is our future that is at stake in the future of our children. That's at stake.

00;36;53;29 - 00;37;02;22
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Yeah. And do you have recommended resources so that we can be informed in these conversations? Where are some good places for folks to learn more?

00;37;02;25 - 00;37;27;04
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Oh, do we yeah. So we couple things. So we have, resource lists that we're curating and putting together. We also have webinars that are on a pay what you can basis. And so if you anyone could go, let's say if you do have resources, you know, we ask you to contribute because again this is a self-funded startup.

00;37;27;06 - 00;37;51;08
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And so any support you know you can provide us is is much appreciated. Because we're not going after big VCs. We're we're funding this all ourselves. But the goal of those workshops are to start to give people some, you know, small snippets of some of the history that I'm alluding to as well as helping them prepare for what they need to do in order to keep them safe.

00;37;51;08 - 00;38;21;16
Dr. Yamicia Connor
This is with respect to the current reproductive health crisis. And then we're also releasing a couple of different books. Some of those are going to be workbooks that are designed to to be used in tandem to our workshops. And then another one that we're writing, is designed to be a stand alone to give people again, like a snapshot into, into, you know, what is happening as it relates to reproductive health.

00;38;21;16 - 00;38;41;20
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Obviously, you know, I'm not a historian. So, you know, there are much better if you just want to know the history. There are some great books, but what we are trying to do is trying to capture the key things that people need to know so that they can keep themselves safe and they can, you know, better protect their own reproductive health.

00;38;41;23 - 00;38;53;25
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Awesome, awesome. And we'll we'll post those links in the show notes so that people can join and get informed, get informed.

00;38;53;28 - 00;39;18;21
Nicole Tucker-Smith
All right. So now we have a little segment called yays or nays. And so I'm just going to share with you a few current events and just your, your gut reaction. Yay or nay. They're meant to be a little bit ambiguous in some cases. So if you feel like, oh, I don't know, just, you know, whatever is your first gut reaction, yay to this, naked that, etc. sound good?

00;39;18;23 - 00;39;49;18
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Okay, okay. All right. So here's here's the first one I cancer screening programs are booming, but you'll likely have to pay for them yourself. So the FDA has approved nearly 600 radiology, artificial intelligence and machine learning programs and devices over the last five years, but most are not covered by insurance, medical associations and regulators are taking a cautious approach to designating new programs for reimbursement.

00;39;49;20 - 00;40;03;09
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Without billing codes or reimbursement options, patients have to pay a cash fee to access these. Many of these screening programs yay or nay.

00;40;03;11 - 00;40;19;25
Dr. Yamicia Connor
So maybe I didn't fully understand your instructions, but I would say yes to the fact that the programs exist and nay to the fact that we're being so cautious in terms of coming up with billing codes. This is a rapidly advancing, area. And so we need to be moving faster.

00;40;19;27 - 00;40;45;17
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Exactly. You know, you played it exactly right. That's how you first got reaction. It could be overall. Yeah. Over on or somewhere in between. So excellent. Awesome on a great track. All right. So and also it's you know whatever feels right to you okay. Yeah okay. Here's a next one. Cardiovascular disease is the number one cause of death among both men and women in the United States.

00;40;45;20 - 00;41;04;28
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Yet decades of cardiovascular and clinical trials have persistently enrolled the predominantly male population. Women continue to be severely underrepresented in clinical trials, and there's a push for cardiology leaders to reverse that trend. Yay or nay?

00;41;05;01 - 00;41;07;23
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Yay. They should reverse the trend.

00;41;07;25 - 00;41;13;16
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Nay for why is it so? It seems so obvious. Like I don't understand.

00;41;13;18 - 00;41;20;02
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Yes, I think yes. I think we should have better data that's actually useful metadata. Yes.

00;41;20;02 - 00;41;38;24
Nicole Tucker-Smith
And that's and that's actually how, I came to learn about you and your first organization based in better health in the first place, because I was so exasperated at how clinical trials are still so woefully underrepresented. It's so frustrating. Like, this is basic FDA. Come on, let's let's go.

00;41;38;27 - 00;41;41;05
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Yes, let's do better.

00;41;41;08 - 00;42;17;01
Nicole Tucker-Smith
All right. Yeah. The last one. On April 10th, 2023, President Biden officially proclaimed alert April 11th through April 17th as Black Maternal Health Week to raise awareness for the state of black maternal health in the United States. This proclamation was accompanied by the availability of approximately 468 million in funding related to maternal and child health across several programs, like supporting pregnant mothers and communities that are less likely to face that are more likely, I should say, to face greater risks.

00;42;17;03 - 00;42;28;14
Nicole Tucker-Smith
This also supports some state specific actions that are designated to address disparities, and there is some funding for research. So what do you think about, this proclamation yay or nay?

00;42;28;17 - 00;42;53;29
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Well, we're a little biased, but too big for us. For us. I think that's great. We need we need way more like those dollars are not sufficient in order touch, you know, in order to address such a big problem. But we'll start there. And we just hope that more people get interested and in the issue and understand how it relates to improving the outcomes for all moms.

00;42;54;01 - 00;43;00;24
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Yes. And I'm with you. I said yay! But then I was like, you know, 468 million. That might sound like a lot, but that's not a lot.

00;43;00;26 - 00;43;04;00
Dr. Yamicia Connor
No, not when you're talking about the government.

00;43;04;02 - 00;43;21;00
Nicole Tucker-Smith
That's not a lot, especially when we look at nine times more likely just to die at the end. There's other ways to be have poor outcomes. So yeah. So all of these are a little bit of a mix. But yeah. Thank you for playing our game there. Yay or nay. And it's also just a way to get folks, you know, just aware of some of the things that are happening in real life.

00;43;21;02 - 00;43;39;04
Nicole Tucker-Smith
And so just as we wrap up, is there anything else that you want to share with the audience, something, that you want to share with them, whether it's personal or, you know, just a bit of encouragement, cause sometimes when we look at the data and some of these disparities have been persistent for so long, it can just be like, what in the world can we do?

00;43;39;04 - 00;43;50;20
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Is there an example or of hope anywhere? Or is there anything that you want to share? As we, have a wrap up our conversation today.

00;43;50;22 - 00;44;08;29
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Well, I mean, we were really busy at a conference last week, but I was able to catch some of the DNC talks. And what had really stayed in my mind is one of the phrases that Michelle Obama said about, that we all need to just go and do something. I don't think that could be more true than it is now.

00;44;09;06 - 00;44;39;07
Dr. Yamicia Connor
We all have a part to play and nobody is too busy, and I think that's something that I have at least changed a lot of my language around. You know, I think there could be kind of at a tendency to infantilized people and not give enough agency to the public. And, you know, particularly the more vulnerable populations. But this is a time where we need to give them their agency or not give them.

00;44;39;14 - 00;45;09;20
Dr. Yamicia Connor
We need to recognize their agency and and everyone has time to get involved in this issue, because if you don't have time, you're involved regardless whether you want to or not. And if you at all want your interests or the interests of your community or the interests of your families represented, if you do not get involved, honestly, you're going to be swept away in, a tide that can have really devastating consequences.

00;45;09;23 - 00;45;47;20
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And so this is just a time for everyone to do something. And what that might look like is going to vary based on where you sit in the world. That might be as simple as sending an email or text to a girlfriend or a friend, or bringing something up at work or whatever. But we all need to understand that we have a role to play, and that the future of our society is going to depend on how many of us really take up that mantle and make this personal.

00;45;47;23 - 00;46;10;29
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Awesome. Yes, I love that word of advice. Do something. Go and do something. And also that we are all involved regardless. So choose how you. Thank you, thank you doctor de Misha Connor, this has been a pleasure. I can't wait to check out the reading list. Because even just being informed is doing something and then, you know, sharing that with others.

00;46;11;06 - 00;46;18;00
Nicole Tucker-Smith
No step is too small. We need we need everybody to take a step forward so that we can move together.

00;46;18;02 - 00;46;22;24
Dr. Yamicia Connor
Right? Even my kids are involved. They're modeling their little ones is,

00;46;22;27 - 00;46;27;20
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Okay. So, you know, you're going to have to show the picture to me. Now, you must take a picture.

00;46;27;22 - 00;46;30;17
Dr. Yamicia Connor
And we can. Everyone has a role to play.

00;46;30;20 - 00;46;37;10
Nicole Tucker-Smith
Right? Yes, yes, yes, baby models, keep it up. Thank you so much. All right. Take care.

00;46;37;12 - 00;46;43;19
Dr. Yamicia Connor
All right. Thanks. Bye.

00;46;43;22 - 00;46;55;26
Cody Hanu
Did we learn anything? Was created by Nicole Smith, produced by Nicole Smith and Marla Leventhal and Cody Hannah. Edited and engineered by Cody Heller.

00;46;55;29 - 00;46;59;21
Cody Hanu
You can continue to listen to learn Anything wherever you get your podcasts.